Curse

bhavv · Aug 28, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

However, 7 heroes and one human player? Do you have any idea how overpowered that would be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cR4zY-n^

If they allower full party of heroes then HM would be what NM was before and NM would be piss easy.

It would be less powerful then using 7 humans. If that is so overpowered, How come Anet are giving us human players leet hax PVE only skills?

Heros cant use PVE skills, people can. I think that is balanced enough for allowing 7 heroes.

Omniclasm · Aug 28, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

To anyone who is claiming heroes ruined PuGs...

I went to the Fire Islands earlier, just for the hell of it. I see a ranger talking in local chat, trying to make a party for Final Blow. I sit there for awhile. 10 minutes later he is still looking for a group. So I think what the hell, I'll join him. When I join, there is 2 R/E, 2 W/Mo, and an E. So I just tell them I'm going to add my hero monks, and I do.

Once we leave town, both warriors stand there casting their mending. After the first group...the E and a W/Mo ask me what a P stands for, so I tell them. We keep going, plowing through because it is easy anyway. Eventually, close to the end, the Ranger starts complaining telling us to slow the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO down. I ask why, we are rolling over them anyway. His response was....because my Meteor Shower is the majority of my damage. Now, I understand that not everyone has a pathetic build, but 3 people out of that team did, and 2 of them didn't know what a P was.

This is why PuGs are dead, not because of heroes.

Burst Cancel · Aug 28, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

The argument has been beaten to death in countless threads. Not once have I seen conclusive evidence that heroes killed PuGs. Rather, PuGs killed themselves. Many of the solo players have been solo since before Heroes were introduced, for many of the reasons already stated in this thread.

The only argument anyone has given for PuGing are the 'social' benefits. However, people who have limited time or simply want to get things done will never care about playing with other people, with or without heroes. The only thing that Heroes changed is that soloing became somewhat easier than with only henchmen.

The argument that PuG players need people to teach them simply doesn't hold water. A lot of the better players taught themselves, using resources available to anyone (the wiki, for instance). Furthermore, even if the argument were valid, the amount of work involved in teaching the masses is disproportionate to the overall gains the community is likely to see; the problem is compounded by the fact that poorer players aren't receptive to advice and frankly don't care to get better.

To date, I still haven't seen a sound, reasonable argument for not allowing 7 heroes. I agree that the main reason Anet appears to be doing it is to hold on to their last few incentives for multiplayer gaming, but I think this is both misguided and ineffective. Misguided because there was never anything wrong with solo play to begin with, and ineffective because PuGing already appears to be the minority preference.

Yggdrasil · Aug 28, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

/signed

I stopped PUG-ing during Prophecies; somehow I got sick of penises and boobs being drawn all over the mini-map, along with general immaturity. While I don't care too much about it, the option would certainly be nice to have.

natuxatu · Aug 28, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Honestly I think the only reason they say three i because they thought that would the number that could be managable by one person.. as in, you have the ability to flag them here and there and use the skills ect.

Still what they COULD do I feel.. is have the first three heroes in your party be controlled by you and the rest of your Heroes well use the skills you have set but use their own AI.

Basically what I'm saying is.. I would like the choice to pick between Jora or Devona. Furthermore it would be cool to see them with the weapon I gave them and the armor I have chosen for them. That is my thought on the subject.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 28, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

/signed

I stopped PUG-ing during Prophecies; somehow I got sick of penises and boobs being drawn all over the mini-map, along with general immaturity. While I don't care too much about it, the option would certainly be nice to have.

lmao

That was hilarious, but mainly funny because of how true it is.

cyberjanet · Aug 28, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Okay, I'm actually going to answer the question that was asked and not comment on using henchies vs heroes.

The reason to have 25 heroes and only use 3 [or even 7] at a time is builds.
I have Olias as a MM. He has runes for a MM and weapons for a MM. Souzuke is a searing flames ele and has fire runes and fire weapons. Dunkoro is a Light of Deliverance monk and Tahlkora is a Restore Conditions prot. They are runed up to get maximum advantage from their builds, unlike my poor characters who change builds at will and so need to be more generalised in terms of runes and weapons. Or carry spares...

I keep the hero builds the same across all characters, so when I want a searing flames ele I can just reach for one.

Being able to spec your heroes in detail is great. And it helps you customise your teams when you need to.

Destro Maniak · Aug 28, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Well I think it should be 30

Because we should have the choice to fill the 3 spot with 3 same class. And at least 10 because we have 10 classes. I strongly agree we should be able to use 7 heros. It should be social game. I hate humans

There are so many fool people in world. I dont want to try to covince them that we shouldnt lure everyone at once.

Mad King Corn · Aug 28, 2007, 07:26 AM // 07:26

/signed

I think increasing the number of heroes beyond the current limit of three is a great idea and it would give me the freedom to "Play the game the way I want to play it", instead of anets vision of how I should play. There are many many times that I would like to do a certain mission in HM and there are simply no people around to PUG with, and then when I do get a PUG group, the vast majority of the time they really suck, I have also ran across lots of people that will not let you in their group if you are not running a cookie cutter build. I was recently kicked from a pug because the leader decided that a ranger with self heals was noobish and stupid.

I realize that with the addition of more heroes, the interface may become clogged, and for that reason, I would be happy just being able to set skills, weapons and armor for any new heroes.

Zorgy · Aug 28, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

"Why have 25 heros to use 3 at a time?"

Imagine if we had ONLY 3 heroes......Guru/Anet customer service server(s) would have crashed by HORDES of whining players.

So in order to avoid that situation Anet wisely decided that the more heroes players can use the less they would complain.

And as a result....... the snake bites its tale

& the OP created this thread....

Life is so funny folks.

bhavv · Aug 28, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

To anyone who is claiming heroes ruined PuGs...

I went to the Fire Islands earlier, just for the hell of it. I see a ranger talking in local chat, trying to make a party for Final Blow. I sit there for awhile. 10 minutes later he is still looking for a group. So I think what the hell, I'll join him. When I join, there is 2 R/E, 2 W/Mo, and an E. So I just tell them I'm going to add my hero monks, and I do.

Once we leave town, both warriors stand there casting their mending. After the first group...the E and a W/Mo ask me what a P stands for, so I tell them. We keep going, plowing through because it is easy anyway. Eventually, close to the end, the Ranger starts complaining telling us to slow the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO down. I ask why, we are rolling over them anyway. His response was....because my Meteor Shower is the majority of my damage. Now, I understand that not everyone has a pathetic build, but 3 people out of that team did, and 2 of them didn't know what a P was.

This is why PuGs are dead, not because of heroes.

This post wins the thread. I would give you an Award, but dont have anything... Oh yes I do, have some of these, you deserve them...

ChaoticCoyote · Aug 28, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

I've beaten this horse to a bloody pulp over on GWOnline, but I've got a couple more whacks left in the old stick...

I can not join a PuG when there is no PuG to join. In many advanced missions areas (Fire Islands, Eternal Grove, etc) *no one* is there -- particularly for Hard Mode.

I tried looking for a new guild, but didn't want to leave existing friends (who have no interest in HM) behind. My three attempts at joining other guilds involved demands that I faction farm, requests from guild leaders for money, and guilds that vanished overnight. Not much better than PuGs.

ANet's attitude on this issue is unrealistic and counter-productive. We can ALREADY play with one human and six heros by using two accounts; there is NO NEED for extra controls bars or flags. I'll PuG when I can find a PuG; otherwise, I want the rich strategic ability to design my entire team and its synergies.

Either give us full heroes, or remove heros and hench from the game.

Solas · Aug 28, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

agree with above post,was funny^^

but yeah,i pugged at the start of prophicies at around frost gate i was annoywed be leavers so henched my way through most of the game of prophices,got stuck in ice caves, got factions did most of that with henchmen, pugs kept failing, when i got to gyala.... i spent 10 tries with pugs, ages waiting for a group, most of the pugs last maybe 10 minites MAX. i spent 4 tries with henchement got masters, never pugged again till GoP, as i had no rank, havent pugged since febuary.

its easy to blame npcs,but really human personality is
FLaming,non-wiki builds,and people not taking sins because they are not seen as good, also happens to other profs.

bhavv · Aug 28, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

and people not taking sins

I dont use sins, dervs or warriors in PVE cos they dont do as much damage as my elly + ranger way. Well, I use Zenmai as a Ranger.

Im Anti-melee, wont see it on my team. Obviously I can never get a Pug without someone crying 'OMG we needs a tank noes!!!' And then having to get a mending wammo with the leet haxxor Gash and Severe artery! I can see the Afflicted running for their lives at the thought of wammos.

ultima · Aug 28, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I dont use sins, dervs or warriors in PVE cos they dont do as much damage as my elly + ranger way. Well, I use Zenmai as a Ranger.

Im Anti-melee, wont see it on my team. Obviously I can never get a Pug without someone crying 'OMG we needs a tank noes!!!' And then having to get a mending wammo with the leet haxxor Gash and Severe artery! I can see the Afflicted running for their lives at the thought of wammos.

totally agree with you for not taking war derv assa etc as a hero in your team. But they dont do much damage....? You know how to play melee characters?

playing as a human warrior? W/R build : tigers fury + dragon slash + 5 adrenaline based sword skills is pretty much contineus high damage no recharge time or energy problems. although heros cant play that...

as for the dervish stop taking avatar of balthazar jeez!! take avatar of lyssa + the 2 PvE only skills and heart of fury + chilling victory + lyssas assault + victorious sweep. <<<I'm pretty sure this build does more damage then any ele build besides better recharge and energy control. anyways the heros cant play this build as well

offcourse 16 in sword and 16 in scythe mastery

bhavv · Aug 28, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultima

totally agree with you for not taking war derv assa etc as a hero in your team. But they dont do much damage....? You know how to play melee characters?

I know how to play a good Hammer Basher W or Thumper R, and know some very good sin and Derv builds for PVP.

But what I mean is 90% of melee players in PVE are completely useless. How many hammer warriors do you encounter when LFG in PVE? The all have mending gash and sever artery

And I said they dont do as much damage, not that they dont do any damage. SF + Critical barrage >>> Melee anyday in PVE.

I never even use necros in PVE, Yes, Ive never needed an MM except for Dzagonur Bastion where I used 2 MMs and a Rit to hold one side of the map.

Although I never use warriors, I have a customised Kanaxais Edge on Koss and a Kanaxais Mallet on Goren lol. They dropped for me in the same run so I gave them to my heroes

Patrick Smit · Aug 28, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

LOL i use 4-5 physicals, but casters do well too. It really dioenst matter much, except for the one who makes the build

zwei2stein · Aug 28, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I...The all have mending gash and sever artery

...

While mending is baaad, what the hell do you have against gash/sever? Seriously.

bhavv · Aug 28, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

While mending is baaad, what the hell do you have against gash/sever? Seriously.

I just prefer this build for swords.

[skill]Barbarous Slice[/skill][skill]Jaizhenju Strike[/skill][skill]Pure Strike[/skill][skill]Quivering Blade[/skill][skill]plague touch[/skill][skill]sun and moon slash[/skill][skill]"watch yourself!"[/skill]

artay · Aug 28, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Perhaps the reason for so many under-educated people in pugs is heroes. I mean, couldn't the reason be that everyones so bad, is that people can't give them a little criticism when they are using hero/hench party. This has been for a long time, so the general skill-intelligence of the public has suffered. After all, heroes don't know when their "master" is sucking up a storm in terms of build selection.

Of course we all screwed now, because no one wants to teach a person who thinks having a primary warrior bonding is a good thing. (had to put my experience in, he kept running out of energy ok)

I think perhaps Arena Net wants to hold onto every little shred of what "multiplayer" aspects they have left in this game, excluding pvp of course.